COVID-19 update 5 September 2021

News article

05 September 2021

Deputy Prime Minister Grant Robertson, and Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield will update the media today at 1pm.

Kia ora. Good afternoon and a happy father's Day to fathers, stepdad and others who play that role. I want to acknowledge today can be difficult for people who have lost their father and I want to acknowledge that at the outset.

 If you can indulge me just one more wish of congratulations, today is special for two other people. It is their birthday. One of those people is my mother. Happy birthday, mum. And the other is one of our ministers.

I will shortly hand over to Dr Bloomfield to update on the latest case numbers but first I wanted to pay tribute to our essential workers.

Coming up to the end of our third week of alert level restrictions, but he can kick in but through all of this, up and down the country, a group of New Zealanders have been going to work each day to ensure we have food to eat, are vulnerable are supported and our health system keeps going.

Despite lockdown our hospitals and other health providers have to keep going and of added record testing and vaccination volumes to their busy workload.

That is why we are all the more grateful for the essential workers who responded to the terrorist attack on Friday. Paramedics from St John's were first on the scene and provided critical emergency care, doctors and nurses across Auckland and middle more hospitals stretched with COVID patients undertook emergency surgery on victims,

I want to acknowledge the countdown and supermarket workers across the country operating under a lot of pressure. Next time you're in the supermarket, be kind and say thank you to those serving you.

Finally I want to acknowledge the work of the police and the New Zealand Security intelligence service will stop their actions have been well canvassed. The SIS  paid a key role in identifying and investigating these terrorist. Often the SIS cannot talk about its operational work for security reasons but in this case it is possible to disclose its role in conducting a long- standing counterterrorism investigation into the deceased attacker from its outset to its conclusion. The New Zealand SIS's powers are complementary and while we cannot disclose the exact nature of the role, they have played a valuable role committing significant resources over a long period to help New Zealanders stay safe.

I will now pass over to Dr Bloomfield. 

>> Kia ora.

There are 20 new community case is to report, all in the Auckland region. It takes total number of cases associated with the current outbreak to 801.

Of those, 79 cases are not deemed to have recovered, or total number of active cases is 722. The ongoing  fall in numbers is proving alert level IV in Auckland and public health measures are rapidly slowing the spread of the virus. But it is not through yet and we need to remain extra vigilant.

Ongoing investigations by Auckland regional Public health has resulted in the total number of unlinked cases those that are not epidemiologically linked or not known contact of existing cases has fallen from 58 last Sunday to just 30 today and that work is continuing and the number is expected to fall over coming days.

Analysis of yesterday's 20 cases we announced showed 75% were contacts of known cases and 55% were household contacts already isolating. Six people from that number yesterday 30% were potentially infectious in the community but with just six exposure events  and none were inessential worker workplaces.

The seriousness of COVID-19 infection remains visible with 38 cases in hospital today across the Auckland hospital network. Of these, 6 are in ICU or in a high dependency unit and four of these patients currently require ventilation. -- six are in ICU.

The remain with the families at what is a stressful time.

Sadly as we reported yesterday in a media release, we reported on the death in a notional hospital on Friday of a woman who was a confirmed case of COVID-19. I would like to personally express my condolences to this woman's loved ones and endorse their message in their words, "This is real and the recognition of the importance of following public health advice "

Lockdowns, following the rules and stopping the spread are important to all of us to prevent harm and in particular to those most vulnerable in our community.

In contact tracing as of 9 AM, we had 38,120 individuals in our system, roughly one in 130 New Zealanders, emphasising the very precautionary approach we are taking to this delta variant. I want to thank every single one of those people who are supporting the response in this way. I know it is inconvenient but it is incredibly important for our efforts.

Of the very close contacts which numbers about 1000, 99% have been followed up by contact tracers and around 90% of all of those, more than 38,000 contacts, have had a taste in our system. Public health units around the country are actively following up people in the areas who have outstanding test results.

On wastewater testing there are no unexpected detections to report from the ongoing testing by ESRI. Samples collected on Thursday from across Auckland and recent samples from Wellington detected positive results, again, not unexpected. COVID-19 was also detected in a sample taken in Rotorua on Thursday.

 There is a known case with a low CT value in the managed isolation and quarantine facility in that area and fellow follow-up sampling is underway. An update on movement of staff to support our Auckland region hospitals.

District health boards are continuing to support colleagues in order thank everyone involved, not just the staff who are going but they colleagues providing backup support in their home DHB is, nurses, other clinicians were offered help as well. Five travel to Auckland today to start tomorrow. Those staff will all be supporting our efforts in the now three quarantine facilities there.

On the testing front, 9232 tests process yesterday and the 17... The seven day rolling averages around 7000 test.

I would like to stress the importance of sustaining good levels of testing to help give us further confidence we are finding any cases of COVID-19 out there. The group that is most important to get tested is anyone with any symptoms that could be COVID-19. Please don't just put this down to a cold or decide it is something minor. Please get a test.

So saying, two weeks of alert level for across the country has led to a much greater... A much lower rate of all coughs and colds across the country because the spread was stopped, so we have got many less people with symptoms in the community but it is imperative anyone with symptoms, especially among the Indigenous, gets tested.

I would like to give a shout out to people in quarantine facilities part of the quarantine outbreak. I want to acknowledge and sacrifice, inconvenience and disruption to their lives to keep the community safe. They are being responsive to some concerns raised by those now in quarantine facilities and additional staffing has been arranged to help allow greater access to outside for fresh air and supervised time outside.

On the vaccine rollout this continues at pace with more than 77,000 vaccinations administered yesterday.

 I want to touch on a new study published on Friday by the US- based Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showing just how important high vaccination rates are for protecting our children who cannot themselves be vaccinated. This study shows emphatically that US states with high vaccination rates had fewer hospital admissions in younger children than states with lower vaccination rates.

We know that severe illness from COVID-19 can and does occur in children and adolescents although the disease is often milder. This study from the US shows the impact of COVID-19 vaccination in the wider population has a strong impact on hospitalisation rates in young people.  The CDC's key message is from...

The key message is clear broad communitywide vaccination of all eligible people is critical to helping protect children from both infection with an severe illness -- severe illness from COVID-19, a timely reminder on father's day. Have well over 1.9 future bookings and book my vaccine .nz. If one of those is not yours, now is the time to do so, either by jumping online or ringing the special helpline number.

And finally, just an update on the status of the people who were injured in the terrorist attack the latest is we have three people in Auckland city hospital, all in intensive care and in a critical and stable condition. One other person in Auckland city Hospital remains stable.  The person in Middlemore hospital was discharged yesterday, Saturday, now recovering at home and the patient status reports will continue to be provided by police as part of their updates on the immediate response to the attack.

Thank you. Back to you. 

>> Thank you. I will shortly do questions on COVID and we will exhaust all of those and then let Dr Bloomfield get on with his day and then I will take any questions, including on the terrorist attack. 

As you can hear from the applet, we are heading in the right direction when it comes to get control of the outbreak but the job is not over yet. As we saw with our first case, it takes only one person to have the virus and silently transmitted over the course of a week for Delta to get out of control. This is why we want to see testing numbers in Auckland increase. We need to make sure we have got the confidence that the 20 cases reported today, for example, are the only 20 cases out there and people are not going about their lives at level IV with Delta undetected. I could draw your attention to the state of Victoria which also had the cases come down significantly but then relaxed restrictions and are now reporting hundreds of cases a day.  We have to do this once and we have to do this right. If you are a contact of the case, you need to be isolating and you also need to be getting the day five and day 12 tests as you are directed.

 If you have cold or flu symptoms anywhere in New Zealand, please get tested, even a runny nose or aches and pains, we would like you to get the test. It is a small inconvenience to give us all the confidence we are managing the outbreak down. I'm sure there is no one in Auckland who wants to stay in  level IV any longer than necessary and neither does anyone outside Auckland want to see that continue. With Delta, there is no room for complacency, so please, stick to your bubble, stay under the one roof and that means no going and visiting your family and friends. Isolate if you are a contact and get a test if you are sick.

Let's double down and let's get the job done. Jessica and then...

>> How concerned are you about the testing numbers. 9000 is well below the average, well below what we got at the beginning? 

>> The weekends always tend to represent lower numbers of tests and the weekly averages, daily averages across the week as the doctor said is somewhat higher than that but we must see testing rates stay up and so this is why there is a comprehensive plan and testing that will be rolled out over the next couple of weeks in Auckland that includes not only testing of contacts but also testing as we mentioned last week around people who are moving across boundaries, also making sure all of our central workers, all of our M IQ staff are being tested regularly as we know they need to be but Dr Bloomfield, you want to add to that? $$CAPITALISE

>> First, there were several thousand community swabs taken which is good and we have many less people with symptoms in the community as a result of the lockdown. What I would say also is the Auckland regional Public health has done a good analysis of the testing over the first... Period of the outbreak since we went into lockdown, which shows actually over 20% of the Auckland population has been tested and in the areas, geographical areas and in the populations where we want our testing, it is even higher, which is very good. It is important that over this next week we achieved two things first, we absolutely are confident there are no undetected cases in the community and the best way to find that is for anyone who is symptomatic to get tested. The second is we will be wanting to prevent any leakages that were out of Auckland across the boundary. Whatever that boundary might be. Hence some thought we had got into and that will be discussed with the transport industry and other employers about the testing of people who are crossing that boundary. 

>> What is happening with the Pfizer vaccine to get more doses in? Will we get more so that we don't have to slow down? 

>> That were carries on and we are feeling positive about it. You will understand as I have said before these are sensitive negotiations but we continue with them and we have a very positive outlook that we will be able to keep this momentum of testing up and just to reiterate the point again that the very worst case scenario is going back to the original plan, but of course we want to build on the momentum we have got, and Souness there is anything to say, we will say it. 

>> (Inaudible) positive outbreak (inaudible)? 

>> As soon as we can. 

>> It is clear we are heading in the right direction but I want to emphasise something the Deputy Prime Minister said. We want to be sure those are the only cases. The other thing that is reassuring is not so much a number but we are finding those cases and the fact there are very few additional exposure events. The important thing is now we cannot let even one case slipped the net here. Because Delta is so transmissible and that is why this next week will be critical to keep testing rates up and for people to dig in and abide by those alert level for restrictions. 

>> (Inaudible) that wastewater testing will pick up, that one case and have we managed to curtail this outbreak? Do you want to see daily wastewater testing in every area? 

>> Through the last 3 to 6 months we have increased the number of places that have been having wastewater testing done and so we will be looking at that as part of our ongoing surveillance. It is only a compliment. People who have symptoms, even when we are on the outside of this outbreak people need to get tested. $$CAPITALISE

>> Bear in mind it is a -- a lag wastewater testing. 

>> (Inaudible) what is the plan for this coming week and will that be a requirement of people in the very near future? $$CAPITALISE

>> Those discussions are happening now with the transport industry. We want to put that onto a more systematic footing. I don't have a decision today about a requirement per se but we are working closely with those businesses. I would say that for a number of them, they are welcoming this idea. They are very keen to give themselves a sense of security, let alone everybody else and so that work will go on. 

>> Tomorrow for example if there was part of a plan...

>> If it needs to be, cabinet will have a look at it. 

>> It is not so much testing at the border but surveillance of people crossing the border just as we do the people working across the border, ports and airports. We are looking at implementing that but we have put advice up about how that would be implemented and it would be a measure that is part of our control of this outbreak so a not for everything. I need to be important about that. $$CAPITALISE

>> (Inaudible) proof of that when they crossed...

>> That is right. That is a good point that Dr Bloomfield makes. We are not suggesting that. The boundary to get tested. That would create congestion that would not be helpful. 

>> Intensive care, as a result of the territory, did any COVID patients (inaudible) the HD you and more generally how much more pressure does that put on those hospitals already dealing with COVID? $$CAPITALISE

>> No COVID patients had to be moved out of intensive care. A relatively small number we have in there. We are monitoring both hospital occupancy and intensive-care occupancy around the country on a daily basis and all three Auckland hospitals have capacity. 

>> I will come back across... 

>> Knowing we may have to slow down vaccinations, would you encourage Maori health providers to set aside  vaccinations for Maori only (inaudible) vaccinating everyone and focusing on the Maori population? $$CAPITALISE

>> I know those Maori health providers are doing a fantastic job in reaching Maori populations and obviously that is a community and the population that those providers know best and today we will continue to reach out into those communities to bring people through. Where we have (unknown term) -based vaccination centres, they will be booked in there. They will follow through but the reason we are working so closely with Murray providers is to ensure we reach Maori populations. Dr Bloomfield?  

>> Our aim is to maintain the high rates of vaccination in Auckland at the moment and we have seen the rates of vaccination of Maori and Pacific Islander people increase which is great and we know our Murray providers have right from the start not discriminated on anyone coming in. They have vaccinated but I also know they have got specific initiatives aimed at ensuring that the Maori populations that are part of (inaudible) are vaccinated. 

>> There was one day we vaccinated around 2000 people but only 5% were married. Is that concerning? We want to boost those Murray  numbers. (Inaudible)

>> Of course we want to see those numbers boosted and that was the point I was making the partners developed between the Ministry of health, district health boards and those Murray and E we providers is aimed at lifting the rate of vaccination and so of course we wanted but a number of those centres are offering that. That is a service the community values greatly. Decisions about the way they go out and communicate and consultation in the Ministry of health. 

>> With resourcing, we told that they had to go on a four- wheel-drive track and then hike to get to some areas to vaccinate them after sitting for almost an hour to help them (inaudible) and what supports are in place for them? 

>> Firstly, that is a fantastic effort by that group. These are the additional resources that the government provided in recent weeks to be able to support people to do that work. Across New Zealand we have been trying to get into isolated communities and we know that, particularly in (inaudible) that will be done by Murray providers so the resourcing we have given, to enable them to do that. 

>> How useful is (inaudible) and the protection act (inaudible)? 

>> That is something we are looking at and it definitely has got value in this instance where we know there is an outbreak in Auckland and so what we are trying to do is identify or prevent anyone who may be infected from going across the border and even if they are only being tested, for example, surveillance testing once we, if we find a positive result, we can add to it much more quickly. The key to control...

>> This is a boundary versus border issue. You are talking about the international borders. 

>> It is difficult to assess because we do not know exactly how many people are prevented from travelling because of a positive predeparture test, but we did see when it was introduced, a reduction in people who were getting identified at that day zero, day one test and so there is no doubt it is an important part of the suite of testing and other measures to help protect... Prevent cases coming into the country and out of the community. 

>> What I would say is no predeparture testing system will be 100% foolproof, for example, because it is still possible for somebody to catch the virus in transit and as they move through the process to come in and so we have to accept there will from time to time cases as a result of that. We are strict about it being a verified testing place that you get your test from and so we have that check and balance in place. It remains a part of what we do and as we look to the future in terms of when we moved to a position where broader restrictions are reduced as we announced a few weeks back, that testing would sit alongside other measures we might do in and around the border including things like vaccination status. -- border. It would be part of that but no one says we are relying on that. 

>> We will come down to the front and then back to. $$CAPITALISE

>> What are key considerations for cabinet's alert level decisions tomorrow? Is possible for one area to be in total lockdown and then other regions in level II? 

>> The first thing to say is we will use the most up-to-date information and Dr Bloomfield provides that in the Cabinet meeting so we have the latest advice. We will continue to look for the things we have looked for all the way through where cases are, where we have information about testing rates, information about wastewater testing rates and making sure we have the very best and most up-to-date information. In addition as you are pointing out we also have to be considering the different statuses we now have, different alert level statuses, in New Zealand. That will be part of Dr Bloomfield's advice and I call him and I will let him speak for himself. I recall him saying if we saw places enter level II he would consider if there needed to be tweaks to level II. All of that is advisable to come to the government and so we will not pre-empt that. Cabinet will consider it and make our announcements tomorrow, but Dr Bloomfield? 

>> The team is working on this advices afternoon and started yesterday, went into last evening and we are working on it today and just as we gave advice around strength and alert level III arrangements, we have come up with some additional advice around strength and alert level II arrangements and also a part of that is in many respects if there were to be and it is feasible, possible, and alert  level for two boundary, arguably that should be even tighter than under alert level for three boundaries so we are working through what that might mean in terms of putting it into operation. 

>> We will go to Luke and then come up to you. Are you done? 

>> Dr Bloomfield... Sorry... (Inaudible) funeral homes and would you consider measures that would allow people to be socially distance at a graveside? $$CAPITALISE

>> If that request was made, we would look at it just as we did with the earlier request. 

>> (Inaudible) pushing for that where there is inconsistency where other level for (inaudible) can be socially distance (inaudible) at the waterfront but not at a burial, outdoors at a cemetery. 

>> Indeed. One comment I would make on the prime minister has made it that funerals there tend to be places where people like to comfort each other and so that is a very important consideration here where it may be more difficult for a lot of reasons for people to maintain physical distancing but of course we will continue to keep talking with the funeral director groups if a request comes through, assessing that on its merits. 

>> Do you support (inaudible) grieving families that are socially distanced? $$CAPITALISE

>> That is a theoretical question because I haven't been asked to give any advice. 

>> (Inaudible) people at graveside, socially distance in, it is not allowed and doing it anyway and not doing as you suggested and breaking bubbles. 

>> We will take into account any situations drawn to our attention. I don't have all the information that you obviously do about it. What I would say is the rules are clear, as they stand, but no one is underestimating the sensitivity of this issue. This is an au pair the prime minister say this, one of the most difficult things about COVID is managing the situation around funerals, and generally around the emotion that goes with people passing away, so we will always look at that sensitively but as Dr Bloomfield is saying, we have to make sure we are maintaining the public health provisions, so we will look at it. We don't have anything definitively to say about it today. 

>> (Inaudible) in Wellington a person with cover 19 in the community, so not isolating in the house. -- COVID-19. $$CAPITALISE

>> I have a date of about the COVID-19. $$CAPITALISE

>> I have a date of about 24 August in mind. $$CAPITALISE

>> 20 August was the last time anyone of the contacts who subsequently became a case was active in the community. 

>> How confident are you about restrictions changing tomorrow? $$CAPITALISE

>> That is a decision we will look at tomorrow. We bear in mind a number of factors when going through this and that includes as I said, the status of cases, testing, wastewater, all of these matters and so we will make those decisions tomorrow. I think we should give Dr Bloomfield the ability to give his advice in the manner he normally does. 

>> Have South Island businesses (inaudible) had you on speed dial? 

>> I've heard from a lot of other people. I come from there so I've heard from people about how they're feeling. I think the South Island knows it is helping to contribute to New Zealand's overall ability to stamp out this outbreak and obviously of course they are all wanting to see life returning down ultimately to level I but we all have a job to do here and we will consider the advice that Dr Bloomfield gives us and make our decisions. 

>> Just on (inaudible) you have spoken about a ramp up. Can you give us a number or target of tests you need to see for Auckland to move down a level II and then also, Deputy Prime Minister, AO G remains the largest cluster affected in this outbreak. What is done to support them and has there been consideration for setting up vaccination centres in churches? $$CAPITALISE

>> I will do the second one and then pass over to Dr Bloomfield. We have put in a significant amount of effort supporting people in the largest cluster. This has been something involving a tightknit community, a faith community and so they spend a significant amount of time with each other and we have recognised because it is a largely Pacific community we need the resources of the Pacific community providers and I've mentioned before, organisations like Seas, Pacifica features, they are all actively engaged with that cluster of people and with all of those who they can provide the best possible support to and you would have heard in the announcement late last week of an additional 23... $26 million for Pacifica organisations to be able to provide both healthcare support but also wider support as well. should there are already a number of centres developed but I don't have knowledge around a specific AO G. 

>> There have been initiatives through the last few months as part of the rollout there. In terms of the test numbers, we are estimating we would like around 7000 tests a day and the key thing is because there are fewer locations of interest, there will not be people tested from that source. We have fewer people with symptoms but we want everyone with symptoms and then we will also have these other groups that we will be working with including those crossing boundaries, higher risk, essential worker workplaces the sort of workplaces where we have seen transmission already to date. We are not seeing any at the moment and also of course our workers in quarantine facilities and those in our hospitals caring for people with COVID-19. Those are the groups we will want to see tested. 

>> The last couple of COVID before we move on. 

>> Dr Bloomfield, there has been some suggestion perhaps there could be slightly different versions of level II depending on where in the country you are, should it go down to level II. Is that your thinking or is it easier to use essentially current alert levels in place and then just to heighten across the board depending on (inaudible)? 

>> We have given advice on ways to strengthen alert level II, for example, it will not be any surprise, the use of masks, but alert level II is alert level II and apply everywhere and our advice because part of the value of the framework is the simplicity and consistency of messaging. 

>> Where there have been tweaks in the past we have tried to keep them as small as possible so people stay well away of what they need to do but all of these decisions will be tomorrow. -- away. 

>> Dr Bloomfield, one of the (inaudible) was that they spent a lot of time because (inaudible) could only speak marry at a level of literacy with they could convert and talk about vaccination. Does the Ministry of Health have any resources or anything to roll out to professionals so these people can understand what it is all about? 

>> We have had a number of key resources translated into Maori and of course that is part of it but a big part of it is exactly what you describe it is those providers that have that  cultural and competence moving out into these communities and talking with them and as the Deputy Prime Minister said that is why we are looking to make sure they have the funding and resources available to allow them to do that more intensive interaction so these communities will be vaccinated, so great to see it is happening. $$CAPITALISE

>> Thank you very much, Dr Bloomfield, happy fathers day and enjoy the rest of your day. 

>> What can you tell us about the claims from the terrorist's mother her son was radicalised by neighbours from Iraq and Syria? $$CAPITALISE

>> We don't have any evidence to support that one. You will be aware that the reason that the terrorist came to the attention of authorities was his online activity. That has been the main focus of interest in him. I want to reiterate we are not looking for anybody else in the situation. This is an individual, a loan attack and you heard that from Commissioner Costa yesterday. 

>> Why was the deportation process so slow moving? 

>> Yes, at every opportunity we have looked for ways to deport these individual. In the very first briefing that the Prime Minister is aware of getting in May 2018, she raised the issue of deportation. Deportation is a long process generally. We have to bear in mind we are talking here about a person who had refugee status and while you are away there is a process that went on about revoking that, we still have to go through the processes. The government is not above the law and we need to go through that and so yes, I know on the service when you read it, it is a very long time frame, but that is the nature of these kinds of claims. This is a very litigious area and one where the government needs to move carefully because the consequences of getting it wrong are extremely high. We will go to Jane and come back. 

>> Is there scope for chaining the deportation and immigration laws in the context of that case as we have seen other laws moving beyond (inaudible) national security or situation where there is a high risk profile? $$CAPITALISE

>> We are continuing to review the immigration law alongside the terrorism suppression law and if there are ways we can improve it, we will, but we also have to bear in mind that throughout the large part of this period, the terrorist was actually in prison and therefore, the deportation process stopped until that had changed. If we were to change that, that is a very significant move and would need quite a lot of consideration, so we have at every turn gone to every part of the law. No stone was left unturned. Now we are in the position we are in now we will continue to look at potential law changes. $$CAPITALISE

>> Does that make you rethink (inaudible) 2019 control orders because at the moment you cannot detain someone when they arrive, again despite their risk profile, and you would be able to carry out surveillance and impose certain requirements. Does the situation expose a floor where someone of high risk not be taken into custody... Into custody on arrival? 

>> Bear in mind on arrival in New Zealand those were not concerns raised about these individuals, so this individual came on initially on a student visa and eventually applied for asylum and refugee status, so in this particular instance that is not the issue, but we will become principally look at all of our laws to make sure they are keeping New Zealanders say. 

>> Future arrival is particularly? 

>> I understand that. 

>> (Inaudible) now with the ability to change it for the future as opposed to the situation...

>> We will look at the full regime we have in place to ensure it is fit for purpose. I will not venture a full legislative opinion today. I will come over to test. $$CAPITALISE

>> Can you explain why immigration New Zealand wanted to revoke the refugee status and what that fraudulent material was? $$CAPITALISE

>> My understanding is that in the process of investigation into the terrorist, it was discovered that some of the documents that he had used in order to get his refugee status looked to have been fabricated and so it was on that basis that immigration New Zealand began to look into his refugee status. There is quite a lot of -- there is a drawnout process that occurs that Immigration New Zealand is declared they will revoke their refugee status stop there is back and forth on information on that and as will you -- you will have seen from the timeline, Immigration New Zealand decided they could do that. We have appeal processes in our system and the terrorist undertook one of those appeals. We will just go to...

>> Which document was fabricated? Was it around the torture and kidnapping or was it around another piece can you be more specific? $$CAPITALISE

>> I don't have that information with me. I am aware it was the documents used in the process of the application. 

>> (Inaudible) documents, why was it the documents (inaudible) was picked up after the fact? 

>> That can be the case in any manner of circumstances. Every single application for refugee status in New Zealand is studied very closely. A number of us including me as an MP have supported people to become... Get refugee status in New Zealand and I can assure you you have to provide documentation and then the documentation is assessed. It was only later after the fact that when investigating further into this person and being able to see the documents that were used that there were concerns they were not used properly. I'm sure we can get more information as we go through this and review the situation on exactly what those documents were. 

>> One of the issues raised was immigration New Zealand was not able to detain the man while the appeal process was going on. Is that something you will look to change in the law because they are a protected person... Where do you fall on the balance of that? $$CAPITALISE

>> It is a challenging area. What is clear from the work done and the opinions is that a person cannot be detained under the immigration act for anything other than deportation and so when a case is in process, it is not possible to be able to do that. Quite clearly, again, we have to make sure we are balancing the very important need New Zealanders' safety here alongside a robust legal process but coming... Becoming a refugee is something that takes a significant amount of work and effort and based on concerns about that person's safety and ability to be able to live where they come from, so those are very significant considerations but as I said in my earlier answer, we are looking at the full suite of the immigration act, what the powers are within that. -- suite. 

>> (Inaudible) clear as to why that appeal into his deportation had to be delayed while he was in prison? 

>> That is because there were a variety of criminal charges that were still live and while those criminal charges are still live, they can have a bearing upon whether or not a person would be deported, so the order the ends has to be to deal with those charges. While the terrorist was in prison, they were largely in prison on remand rather than in prison as a result of convictions and so throughout this period of time, there will live legal processes that had a bearing on whether or not someone would be deported. Therefore the order had to be that way around. $$CAPITALISE

>> It does sound like a missing part of the story is (inaudible) and the judge makes it very clear he was struggling with his family (inaudible) and have we heard that mentioned in briefings? Do you think the government needs to (inaudible) the support given to the man to get better was absent? $$CAPITALISE

>> I don't have evidence to point to that. Clearly at various points there have been engagement with the terrorist around issues to do with his psychological state, be that through the latter part with Corrections or earlier, as you know the Prime Minister said yesterday one issue she considered was if there was an ability to use mental health provisions to be able to have a form of detention. That did not play out to be possible, so I think there were attempts throughout this process for those issues to be dealt with and, unfortunately, none of these attempts were able to change the state of mind of an individual with his ideology. 

>> When he was released from prison he was essentially given to SARS-CoV-2 to supervise him. What supported the mask have to support him? 

>> I don't think it was fair to say that. -- he was given to the mask. 

>> All the services you would expect to be given to someone in prison were in place and in addition the significant surveillance or the follow-up that happens with the probation service and others changed (inaudible). $$CAPITALISE

>> The belief he was heading to Syria. Can you explain what international obligations were in place that made it the expectation that New Zealand would not just let him get on a plane and leave the country? Also have you looked at Australia in terms of some of the things like they can allow someone who is serving a sentence (inaudible) if they consider the terrorist risk in jail in some of the deportation laws? $$CAPITALISE

>> On the latter point we continue to look at all of the legal background to this. I will not say that is something we have actively pursued but as we review the case and we look at the strength of our laws, we will look at the options available. In terms of his trip to Syria, we have obligations under international law and under UN  resolutions, I believe UN resolution 217 a and 2396, are both relevant, and they are about making sure we uphold our duties as international citizens when it comes to whether or not we believe somebody is a danger and risk and we must make sure... We are part of the international community. That comes for all of us, all countries with a certain set of uncomfortable obligation sometimes that they are the obligations we have. I would also note that at the time it occurred, he was a permanent resident and also whilst there were a range of concerns and issues, there were not any convictions or things that would have led to a sufficient level of risk to have been met to go beyond those conventions. $$CAPITALISE

>> (Inaudible) visited Sri Lanka, did he visit Sri Lanka to knowledge? 

>> I do not have that information but I will check. 

>> In terms of (inaudible) and the foreign fighters stuff, can you see how the public would look at it and say you had clear-cut legislation around the foreign fighters legislation, meant he was stopped at the airport but there was no legislation around a person under 24-hour surveillance and how you could have gaps and things, the one where it is not clear cut around him being in New Zealand, put New Zealanders at risk? 

>> I know. I don't accept that in itself was an issue in this particular case will stop whether or not we have the full legal framework that enables us to be able to have... To be absolutely sure that in the future something like this would not happen again, that is the very reason why we now go back and review those laws, but I think what you have here is a situation where the government at every turn sought a remedy to this and at every turn we found we were not able to. That means we have to go back and take a look but we tried every potential legal avenue to run this town. 

>> (Inaudible) you had better legislation to keep in here and put New Zealanders at risk then you had to get rid of him and keep New Zealanders at risk. 

>> As I said and I don't necessarily accept that. We had some international obligations but we are also looking at this now from this position today in 2021 rather than the position we were in 2017 as well, so we have to make sure we are not telescoping those figures (inaudible) but my point being this is why we now review the overall level framework to make sure we put ourselves in the strongest possible position to not have this ever happen again.  

>> (Inaudible) just in terms of (inaudible) it was knowingly dangerous, under 24-hour surveillance and there were restrictions on him in terms of (inaudible) and bits and pieces.  What consideration was given to limiting visitation stuff (inaudible)? $$CAPITALISE

>> It was a court order that put him back out of the community. The question around surveillance was because that is the police and their pastor that we do that the conditions upon someone being released in the community are put in place by the court, not by the government. 

>> (Inaudible) surveilled this guy 24 hours a day, can you not limit him going out into the public? 

>> Our limits in terms of freedom are -- a movement not once we could cocktail. (Inaudible)

>> Should we expect as part of any on review, should they put themselves out there that? $$CAPITALISE

>> On the last one, the investigations we have with the police and with the coroner after the police and the coroner to make their decisions about that and any other future investigation or review that may occur could of course make contact with the family but no decision has been made about that. I'm not aware of any contact between the government per se and the family other than the courts who would be... Who we know let the family know and we had that 24-hour period because the court had been involved. -- curtailed. 

>> Who notified? $$CAPITALISE

>> I don't know the answer to that. Obviously the court went to the family because the suppression orders were about to be lifted and that would have been done through their lawyer, I'm sure the terrace's lawyer. Beyond that, I don't no there would be a particular contact from next of kin. If that happened it would be the police because it is their job. 

>> (Inaudible) and the coroner, what potential investigation or what enquiry are you considering and is that something you will discussed at Cabinet tomorrow? $$CAPITALISE

>> That is something Cabinet will consider tomorrow. We are in early days here. There are already those two reviews underway and we will take and look and see if there is more value in further investigations. It is important people know that the work around the terrorism, especially the immigration act, is already underway and so that work will continue. 

>> After the mosque attack, is that the scope you would be looking at? (Inaudible) a church enquiry right through to the Royal Commission? $$CAPITALISE

>> There are a range are reviews possible and any discussions will be for the future. 

>> Are under conversion therapy, (inaudible) are there provisions? How are you feeling ahead of that in terms of where we are at and how the process is going? What is your take on it? $$CAPITALISE

>> This is important part of any piece of legislation with the public get to have their say and there is a lot of interest in this particular issue and so it is in the hands of the select committee and this is where the government handed over to Parliament and am looking forward to hearing these omissions. We are, as we said in the first reading, are open to listening to the submissions but clearly the government has put this legislation forward because we believe there is an issue that needs to be remedied. 

>> Are you able to explain why you are not able to contain (inaudible) released from jail under the mental health act? You mentioned it was not possible. Can you explain why? $$CAPITALISE

>> I don't believe there was any evidence or justification president for that. The Prime Minister... I refer to when the prime minister had mentioned that earlier in the process as to whether there were but again, those matters were once of the court will have dealt with and the court would have been the place where a decision to do that occurred and it simply was not part of that process. 

>> (Inaudible) under alert levels, talking about alert level for all three (inaudible) 10 people at a funeral. A lot of places are taken by members of the clergy or whatever. Funeral directors want those 10 places to be for mourners. Can you at least make that change 10 mourners plus whoever needs to be there? 

>> Proposals put forward are always considered but as we noted this is the toughest of all areas. We are doing really well with COVID at the moment where alert level IV is working, level III is working. We will want to pursue that and finish the job and some of these restrictions, which are awful for people to go through are helping us make that progress, so of course we will consider any proposals put up, but unfortunately to do this job well, we have to do it with very strict restrictions. 

>> The prime minister has pledged to pass the counterterrorism laws by (inaudible). Are they ready and is it a knee-jerk reaction? $$CAPITALISE

>> They will be ready. Firstly the select committee has to finish its job and will need time to do that. It was getting towards the end of its process anyway and then it is a matter of returning to Parliament when it returns to Parliament, we debate clauses through the committee of the whole house and then we have a second reading, committee of the whole house and 1/3 reading. We want to expedite the process would make sure we get the law right. There are a number of weeks to go in September. I will come over here and then Jane. 

>> (Inaudible) in light of the fraudulent documentation you said upon further investigation it was found they were fraudulent which suggests the means existed to find out they were fraudulent. If the means exist, why wasn't that found in his initial application? If the means did exist, that might lead to calls for further, more stricter things. What reassurance can you give to the refugee population who has done this properly and might be concerned that increased or higher restrictions would now be upon them? $$CAPITALISE

>> I am not proposing that. Those are words you are putting out there. There is already a rigourous process. What happened here is further down the track a different group of people doing a different investigation obtained some material that indicated to them the likelihood that this would be, this looked like it was fraudulent. But then came back into the immigration system and was dealt with and led eventually to the refugee status being revoked. Do we need to make a change to the process? I don't actually have information about the number of situations where this occurs, but what I can absolutely say with certainty because I have assisted some people in the past applying for the refugee status is it is a rigourous process. Like any process, if someone seeks out to defraud, that happens from time to time. We see that across all manner of processes in government and in the private sector where people to act fraudulently and often that is found out I later investigation. That is simply the reality but we will make sure we continue to have a robust process. I will go to Jane and then finish.  

>> Are there any other gaps in the law thrown up by this case that could be included in the counterterrorism legislation? $$CAPITALISE

>> I am not aware of that at this point. There are a range of measures in the count alleges -- counterterrorism legislation but no one has drawn my attention to that particular piece of legislation. As a said around the immigration act there is ongoing work in that area. Thanks, everyone.

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