COVID-19 update 22 November 2021 4pm

>> Kia ora koutou katoa good afternoon.

First, the week ahead, I will be in Wellington tomorrow for Parliament before returning to Auckland on Thursday to meet with business leaders and help and support service providers.

We are back in the capital on Friday and then through the weekend. New Zealand will soon move into the COVID-19 protection framework, otherwise known as the traffic light system.

This week we will be setting out some key information that people, neighbourhoods and businesses need to ensure life runs as smoothly as possible when we transition. The hard truth is Delta is here and not going away. While no country to date has been able to eliminate Delta completely once it arrives, New Zealand is better positioned than most to tackle it. Because of our high vaccination rates and the inbuilt safety measures in the traffic light system like the use of vaccine passes.

First we will provide extra guidance to help business prepare. The Minister will release a toolkit for businesses who choose to make it a requirement for staff to be vaccinated. Businesses like in New Zealand and the Warehouse have taken this step, so this new assessment tool will help others who wish to keep their workforce and customers safe from the virus. Legislation will be introduced and passed this week to enable this framework and assist business.

Tomorrow we will launch the Verify app for businesses that require proof of a vaccine pass for entry and to operate. While a business is not mandated to use the Verify app, it is handy.

The ministers will set out the engine support someone who gets COVID -- end-to-end support someone who catches the virus will receive, which includes testing and tracing, and what social services are available if required.

The vast majority who get COVID in the future will experience mild to moderate symptoms that won't require hospital level care so what matters is that we make sure they get the best care and support they can from testing through isolation and into recovery.

Also this week we will be releasing detailed sector guidance so that business and other organisations can see how they will operate at each level of the traffic light system. The new system is safer and simpler than the Alert Level framework with business able to remain open at each level. The guidance will set out how they can operate safely to ensure that can happen.

 In addition to these announcements, cabinet is aware business is seeking greater certainty around the date of the transition to this next stage in our response, so they can prepare for reopening. As you know we have already stated our cabinet meeting on November 29 will determine which levels of the traffic light system that different parts of the country will move into.

And Auckland will move in at red. Vaccine levels determine what level the rest of the country moves into. In order to provide further certainty, cabinet has decided today the whole country will move into the new traffic light system at 11:59pm on Thursday, 2 December.

Making Friday, 3 December the first day that the traffic light system will be operationalised.

 That is 11 days from now, and it is important everyone gets prepared. You will know we have long been signalling that after 29 November meeting that it would be soon after that the country would shift. This data provides the ability for business in particular to NAPLAN. -- to plan now. The number one thing every New Zealander can do to prepare for the new system is to get vaccinated. If you are due for your second shot, get that as soon as possible.

 Vaccine passes will operate in the traffic light system and if you are not fully vaccinated you will find you are not able to access a range of places like bars, gyms and restaurants. That will be from December 3 when proof of vaccination will be required. 83% of eligible New Zealanders are fully vaccinated but nearly 200,000 people, 4.6% of the eligible population, are more than three weeks since their first shot and they will start missing out on going to places where the passes are required.

To that group, I urge you to get your second dose and download your pass as soon as possible. For those overdue for their second shot, if you got it today New Zealand would be 88% vaccinated. That would ache our transition so much safer.

Cabinet also decided to ensure the transition to the new system is as smooth as possible and to iron out any issues with the use of vaccine passes in advance of the whole country moving, we will undertake a trial.

By allowing hairdressers and barbers in Auckland to open from this Thursday, November 25, so long as they require proof of vaccination from customers. This means fully vaccinated Aucklanders can get their hair cut as long as they present their My Vaccine Pass. We will be posting and sending out detailed sector guidance but in short hairdressers will need to operate with vaccine passes, take bookings only, so no walkins.

That means we can ensure we don't have large amounts of congestion. Staff must also be fully vaccinated. They must operate broadly as they do under Alert Level 2 which they will be familiar with with staff wearing masks and putting in 1 m distancing between chairs. Customers can remove their masks between haircuts, again familiar settings to us all in Alert Level 2.

We have chosen the hairdressers to trial these vaccine passes because out of all the venues are still closed they pose the lowest risk by reopening. There are fewer staff numbers employed, people in the space are constrained by the number of chairs, distancing can also be easily maintained. This will offer some relief for the sector and customers, but most importantly it offers us a decent trial of the vaccine pass in advance of that date of 3 December.

So far 1.2 million people have already downloaded their vaccine pass which is great but I encourage everyone to get theirs and prepare now for the movement into the new framework.

As I said at the start, Delta is here and we are now in the closing stages of preparations for the move to a new system that offers both greater protection from our virus as well as greater certainty for business to stay open regardless of level. I know there will be some who may have some anxiety about these changes but I can assure you we will continue to operate in the cautious and careful way that has served us so well right since the start of the pandemic with our number one priority the protection of lives and livelihoods. But as will be clear from today, we are fast approaching the next phase in our COVID response that delivers more freedom and recognises the hard work iwi's have done to get vaccinated. It is based on the values we have had serve us so well and I hope people have the space and confidence to have the summer break they deserve.

Questions?

>> If we move into level III.3, and hospitality would have been included sooner, why did you go with hairdressers and not include hospitality this week?

>> We have demonstrated there is certainty now for business so that they will be able to reopen from 3 December. In the meantime, we have made a decision to allow one group to open. That is a group we are by default the numbers are smaller, more confined, that allows us to safely test the vaccine pass system before we all move on 3 December.

>> Why only announce the date today? Why not do it last week? You said it would be 24, 48 hours? Why not give people certainty?

>> Cabinet made the decision today that will be the date. That allowed us to consider the advice from officials around the legal requirements Gazette inputting signing of the orders, the notice period required, so 3 December is the date we can confidently move the entire country into the new COVID protection framework.

>> Another COVID death, a man in his 40s, is this the youngest to die?

>> I would have to come back with you on the latter but I want to acknowledge the death which is very sad for this person's family because it is someone who has been in hospital for a while and unfortunately has died from COVID-19. We will check on that, whether this is the youngest to death.

>> (INAUDIBLE) what do you think?

>> The signs are very promising in Auckland and on Wednesday when I joined Minister Chris Hipkins, I am planning to show the updated figures of what the R value looks like, what the modelled number of cases, hospitalisations and admissions to the ICU look like. But what I can say, you saw last week, the hospital admissions and the ICU numbers were not increasing. They dropped towards the end of the week and they are around 80 at the moment. This is a really good sign and it is a reflection of the good work that Aucklanders have been doing by abiding by the Alert Level 3 restrictions and the impact of vaccination which is also quite profound. I will update on Wednesday about the modelling.

>> Would you ever back down on Three Waters?

>> We made our decisions for all the right reasons. We cannot continue to have thousands of New Zealanders getting sick from drinking water every year. We cannot continue with a situation where infrastructure holds back our ability to build houses that we need, or a continuation of the situation where sewage is routinely released into our waterways. The status quo is not an option. If we maintain the status quo ratepayers will face larger bills, we don't want that and that is what Three Waters is about.

>> Will you back down? Speak or no, we didn't take these decisions lightly. They are designed in such a way that will retain all the things people care about. Safe drinking water, the ability for them to be locally owned and managed, but for us to turn around all the issues we have had with water infrastructure today. Barry?

>> You are allowing hairdressers to test the vaccination passport system. You spoke a couple of weeks about alfresco dining. You have got 25 groups in Auckland, why not do it now? Why not allow them to do the test, or does the test, is the vaccine testing not up to scratch yet?

>> No. That is not the rationale. Here we have got an entire sector who are able to undertake this test. As a sector. And we know that of all the groups we are able to open up, this is amongst the lower risk because the ones that have not yet reopened, they are all of hospitality, the gyms, a wide range of close personal services, so this is a sector where by default the number of people at any given time in a venue is going to be limited by default. We can safely test the vaccine full stop one of the issues for hospitality and outdoor settings, is whether or not we can change bylaws to enable a larger range of hospitality venues to be able to legally hold alfresco dining full stop we looked at that, there was not a simple fix full stop it's quite a complex area of law, we haven't finished looking into those, but it was not a straightforward option full stop

>> Essentially, you are saying the restaurant sector cannot test as effectively at the moment as the hairdressing?

>> No, that's not what I was saying full stop to give me full stop I was saying I hear the call separately at the sector is asking us to explore and have more outdoor settings because we have already said they say full stop what I was setting out was the reason we chose headdresses is because -- headdresses is because all of the sector is currently unable to operate, this is the lowest one full stop only those... Isn't necessarily full stop

>> Can I ask you one more, are you going to ask Stuart Nash to apologise for calling the grounds for movement racist and anti-backs?

>> It is the minister Nash to explain the context of his own comments full stop of course his point was he was referring to some of the material he had seen in online forums, which led him to have that you full stop I wouldn't use that language, I would describe generally -- wouldn't generally describe an entire group of people in that way full stop but when asked him to apologise for his comments full stop he has given the context for his you, I take another one full stop I have just set out the reason full stop Jane?

>> (inaudible) prosecution, violence, no evictions over 3 years, and some pretty bad examples of their behaviour towards neighbours, but they are allowed to remain their full stop

>> Here we have 2 roles we need to take very seriously full stop we need to make sure that in a neighbourhood where doing everything we can to ensure a neighbourhood and community estate, that neighbours are not duly impacted by behaviour that people would consider at anguished -- antisocial. We are the final provider of housing in many respects, what you are evicting someone from state housing in that way, there are very few options are full stop

>> Should that situation override the right for elderly people?

>> I hear that, and as I say, I caveat that with the fact there is a competing need for us to make sure that communities are safe and we have a role to play there as well. As a local MP, I have come across circumstances like this. And we do have to make sure people feel safe, we do have to make sure people in our state housing are respecting basic expectations and the community. And as you say, not terrorising people around them.

>> Change of policy go, there is no deterrent at the moment, people have been (inaudible).

>> That's not to say that people will not be moved on into more suitable circumstances if there are issues they identify. I don't think it's fair to say there are no interventions there are interventions, they should be utilised particularly if they are causing concerns in the community and people are feeling vulnerable.

>> The refinery up there closing down shouldn't the government have intervened to save those jobs and protects potentially oil prices in the future.

>> One of the concerns, were twofold. The impact on the community and will continue to do work, locally, with the original economic development teams around ensuring that those high skilled workers that we are doing everything we can to make sure that they are utilised and retained in supporting that work. The 2nd concern we had was security of supply. The advice we received was that these changes pose no great risk to security of supply than what already existed with the terminal acting as a refinery. Those were some concerns we have had, those (Or. But there is obviously an extra piece we need to we need to do to support the workforce. Henry? (inaudible) level III step changes, polling showed that (inaudible) to widespread confusion about the changes.

>> First of all will point out, it's really important that people understand that we move into them. I don't think there was any suggestion that there was (inaudible). We need people to understand what is involved in. The court -- call on us was twofold. If we can safely do so, and it is not unusual, all the way through, we have at least been flexible enough to step into new alert level chefs and that is what we kept open. We signal to people if we could move, that is what it would look like we could balance need for people to plan and prepare, but also not set an unrealistic expectation that it would be a straight move.

>> A lot of communities are coming up with (inaudible), workable because (inaudible). Are they covered by the specified (inaudible)? Can you set that out a bit clearly?

>> Across all of the traffic light framework, for the most part, if you are vaccinated, if you go about -- you can go about doing all the things you can usually expect. That's the most important thing about the new system, if you are vaccinated you can go to hospitality, dear haircut, go to a gym, go to large gatherings. What varies is how large those gatherings are at different levels, and that is the same as what we have had to wrap the alert level system. We make usually put out specific sector guidance. As you can imagine, we have to be particular in the way we treat schools, because we have large groups of unvaccinated children and parents need to supervise them. They will put out sector guidance in that area that is the -- particular to those venues. Will do the same things that I outdoor and where you don't have entry and exit points to check vaccination.

>> New Zealand doesn't publish the vaccination status of its covert deaths. Most other countries do. Is there any move to do that every month or something so (inaudible)?

>> The issue to date has been attributable to individuals. There is a privacy issue. I won't say that as the numbers increase, because we are wanting to keep our deaths to a minimum. But it is something we will look at. We do publish everyday the vaccination status of our hospital admissions, and can provide that for those in ICU, and we also publish the vaccination status of our overall cases for the day. Is just for very small numbers of that.

>> One other thing that would be monitored in the traffic light system will be (inaudible). How would you be able to man it if it is not requiring vaccinations.

>> In the same way we already do with gathering limits, you see these options, if people don't want to use passes they don't have to, but the size and scale is limited. Again, we already have the use of general director supporting the management of gathering limits for funeral and tangihana. There will be guides that goes out to support marae but we will expect they will choose to -- how they will do this. This is exactly why we have created a framework where there are choices. If people choose not to use vaccine certificates, they don't have to, but the gathering limits will be lowered as a result.

>> Can I ask you...

>> I'm just going to come to a few people who haven't had a chance and I'll come back to you. Quite a few people need to go, so (inaudible) fair. Mark?

>> I will double back to those on time limits. Mark?

>> You agree with public health experts who say that as a result of opening the border, Nari will die as a result of that situation? -- Nari?

>> I have been asked a number of times around modelling were don't have that level of specificity around the impact on different groups. We do of course across regions, but not to that level. I don't know how accurately models will be able to determine that. What we do know will make the biggest difference is vaccination rates. We know now that the area we were making the most significant progress in at the moment is without Nari vaccination rates. -- with our Maori vaccination rates. We are now at 79 -- with our Maori vaccination rates. We are now at 79.3% for first dose. But every day and every vaccine counts, as a layer of protection is to move into the new framework. The final point I would make is yes, the boundary opens on that date. But we also have requirements around the movement of those individuals, and will also be in the COVID reduction framework. Those areas with lower vaccination rates will be using vaccine passes to protect those who are unvaccinated as well. I will come just a car, then Barry, Dan (inaudible). Barry? Jessica? And so did you. Barry, I am going to ask for a little decor and. Jessica and then Barry. Jessica?

>> Doctor Bloomfield, we know Auckland will go to (inaudible), so what is your advice around the risk of the country, as Wellington (inaudible)?

>> That is what we are working on and the Cabinet will consider that. Public health advice is one of the inputs, cabinet has already agreed other criteria to consider as well. What I will say is, as you can imagine, because this is the first time we're going into this framework, and as we have in the past and as her service, we will be looking at it with a precautionary lens with a view to thinking about where we go in might be different from where things and up. We wanted not only give good advice about where we are to start with, particularly as the boundary opens in Auckland, but thinking about what are the clear criteria for moving both up and down within the framework.

>> (inaudible) what other details can you give about that?

>> I don't have any more details about that, I say 5 cases from this morning, one was unlinked, the others were all known contacts. But I don't have any information about the case (inaudible).

>> Would anyone like to take (inaudible) question? Jason?

>> Around your trip to Auckland this week, could you give us some more information about the places you will be visiting? You criticise last time were not going...

>> We are just finalising some of the meeting schedule. We will put it in the media advisory in more detail, but what I'm hoping to do is connect with business representatives as I did remotely last week. But a bit of a focus on social service providers. I haven't had a chance to engage extensively with them in person recently. That will be one of the elements of the visit.

>> What does this mean for the step change level? Does it mean Auckland will never see level III.3, or is that still?

>> It is now planned for the COVID reduction framework. Be a certainty on the day, where we are moving, and that at that point we see everything reopen. We are so close to the new COVID reduction framework, and that gives far more scope for reopening than the other step changes. As I recall, particularly for hospitality, they have The Number, and I Imagine They Have Been an Economic for Some, that is something they can plan for the future. We don't and plan -- plan to move from that.

>> Are beauty salons included?

>> Just hairdressers and barbers. We have kept it quite confined. Because we are operating a trial. We are able to define quite neatly who falls into that category, something we have to do to provide the exemption to operate. We know that of all the things we can open, it is the one we can do with a good understanding of the public health risk. A limited number of people can be in a facility at any given time, by the very nature of that industry. A limited number of workers, we can run looking regimes, and it gives us good feedback on the operation of vaccine certificates. $$TRANSMITFAN

>> Looking at the stats, you said regions that hit 90% double dose will go into orange but none of them look that close. Have you got any data that suggest you could get there?

>> Vaccine levels will play a key determining factor. We have already given some strong suggestions about what we expect. Obviously Auckland is going into red because of the outbreak. We will not be placing any region into green, and that is because we are in a transitional environment. We don't want regions you're going -- -- yoyoing. So starting where we are... As for the rest of the decisions made on the 29th, with a couple of days for people to see where they will be moving, we will look at vaccine certificates, case rates, sorry, vaccine rates, we will look at case rates and that will be the major determining factor but we will also be pragmatic. A good indication is if you hit 90% first dose, that's a good indication of where you are heading.

>> Of those people who had their first dose, they are due for their second, if they got it today, how close would we be?

>> At that point we would be something like 86% double dosed for New Zealand so many regions would be doing really well. That is a strong message - 200,000 people are due for their second dose, please go and get it. Make sure you are prepared for the vaccine passes because they are coming soon. Anything further on that? Sorry, yes?

>> Just on regional travel under the red system, some of the earlier COVID-19 information said there would be restrictions. For example, an area outside Auckland put into red, could they expect regional travel restrictions such as vaccination?

>> No, regional travel restricts's will not be the norm, hard borders will not be the norm. There may be cases where there are localised lockdowns or limitation of movement but that will not be the norm.

>> What sort of trials were therefore the vaccination pass?

>> Perhaps Dr Bloomfield could speak to this but the team have been trailing the use of the Verify app. I believe they worked with a small number of businesses early on to trial the use of the past. It has been trialed on a small- scale -- vaccine pass. The trial with the hairdressers and barbers in Auckland gives us a much larger scale to work with before the whole country moves which we thought would be valuable to the rest of the country to have that large operation.

>> Just confirming, there has already been testing of the Verify app and it becomes available this week for people and we will announce that for people to use and get loaded up and ready to go. We are making good progress.

>> (INAUDIBLE)

>> Small tweaks.

>> The key issue is not so much the app but how you make an easy operation for business is doing the checking. Learning all the time.

>> Sorry, Joe, Michael, Thomas, Ben.

>> Just coming back to the position earlier about who goes to read and who goes to Amber, -- red, is that a case that Dr Bloomfield and the health team will do this on a case-by-case basis?

>> Will be provided with advice and Cabinet will consider that advice and make those decisions. And then in essence once we are notified, they will be written into orders and gazetted.

>> In terms of the advice, Dr Bloomfield, will you with your team go through each DHB and look at how many vaccinations, how many vaccine passes downloaded, what level of detail are you going to provide?

>> We will provide our recommendations and some rationale for that but we will be looking at vaccination rates, we will be looking at the equity dimension to those rates, especially vulnerable populations and regions. As the Prime Minister said, whether there are cases in those regions and also health system preparedness which we have a big piece of work underway for that.

>> (INAUDIBLE) you talked about doing some work around the next move opening up the borders early next year, (INAUDIBLE) have you had a chance to look at that work and make some decisions about that?

>> It is not finalised but I expect we will have decisions shortly.

>> This week?

>> I don't want to give a specific date but we anticipate it will be shortly. Again wanting to constantly give as much forewarning for planning purposes as we can. We have already indicated first quarter as you can recall. Sorry, I did say Michael and then Thomas.

>> Just on Anna's question around travel, (INAUDIBLE) asking holiday-makers to stay away from areas with vulnerable populations, (INAUDIBLE) staying away from these areas, will the government be working with these communities (INAUDIBLE)?

>> My message would be that actually we have put in mechanisms to ensure that movement around the country can be as safe as possible. Firstly, as a nation, by that time we will have very high vaccination rates. Also as an extra layer, in communities where the resident population, the rate might be lower, for instance, we would expect that would be an area that would operate in the colour red and the colour red means if you are unvaccinated, you cannot go to those high risk settings. So there are protections there. To anyone who has concerns, I would say we have prepared to meet those concerns to make sure that we have got measures that do ensure that those who are not protected by the vaccine are protected in other ways.

>> If checkpoints are starting up again, what would be your (INAUDIBLE)?

>> The police, we have already said will work with local communities and local iwi especially in the north because that is an area we expect there to be checks regardless because that is where of course we will have Aucklanders potentially moving through and they have a requirement to either be tested or vaccinated. So that is an area where we expect there to be checks in place and we will continue to work with communities on that. For the rest of the country, any community there I would again ask they work with their local police because of course you do have to make sure you are operating legally and safely with anything like that.

>> Possibly looking quite far ahead, when New Zealand opens up to international tourists, is it expected they will need to have a My Vaccine Pass to enter venues or because it will be mandated that they are vaccinated to enter the country will there be a different regime?

>> Yeah, so, of course we have ensured that our vaccine pass is able to be used. I know from the experience of other travellers, they have often used supplementary ways to demonstrate they are vaccinated. We need to work through a bit more sector guidance because it will be easier for them to produce their domestic vaccine pass than it will be for them to log into a New Zealand process, but that is something I may need to go away and get the official view. I know they will have looked through some of the detail even if I don't have a two hand. -- it at hand.

>> Dr Bloomfield it appears there is a move to once a week saliva testing at the Auckland boundary, what is the reason for this? Is this being driven by sites or the strains on the network?

>> Always, Simon. We sought advice from our testing group and its our high level of confidence and our experience of the evidence that a saliva based PCR test is as good from a diagnostic perspective as a nasopharyngeal test. Previously we had it twice a week, and then if someone returned a positive saliva test they had a nasopharyngeal PCR test to confirm but we have agreed on the basis of scientific advice that actually they can be treated similarly which means we can drop down to weekly saliva testing.

>> Which is what we're doing with the nasopharyngeal.

>> Weekly will be the regime because that is what is expected.

>> We are not doing twice a week for the nasopharyngeal.

>> It will be the same for our people working in border facilities.

>> Just really quick on the nuts and bolts, a Hawke's Bay related question, apparently the DHB there was only alerted to a case possibly because a family member contacted DHB. What do you know about this, is that correct? Was Ministry of Health aware of the case prior, why did they not alert the DHB?

>> This person was tested in Auckland and travelled from Auckland to Hawke's Bay. When the positive test was notified by the lab and the person was notified and isolated, they were in Hawke's Bay by that time. The ongoing follow-up care was transferred to Healthline and Healthline was making daily calls to that person. One of the things that hadn't happened in the system, and we have looked at that about making sure we correct that, as they assumed the person was, I don't know if they assumed the person was still in Auckland, but we now have a flag in the system so they will notify the public health unit but the dollar -- daily follow-up was happening by Healthline.

>> In those daily follow-up calls, should it not be obvious where the person is?

>> Years, and we have had our public health units around the country King after people in Auckland, for example, -- looking after people in Auckland for example and looking after those cases and whanau they have required such follow- up. In this case, it didn't happen but we have followed up to make sure the system does that in future.

>> Can I ask you to be more specific around why the police are not being mandated to get vaccinations?

>> To be fair, all I have indicated is that we haven't concluded the decision-making on that yet but I expect a decision to be communicated on that this week.

>> Also, Australia is moving to quarantine-free travel systems with Japan...

>> And South Korea, I think I saw.

>> Do you see the benefits, are you keen to do this sooner rather than later to re- establish New Zealand to the world?

>> Of course we fully appreciate the importance of us reconnecting safely. We are quite focused on making sure that as we do that the changes we make it stick. We don't want the uncertainty for New Zealanders, for business, and for the airlines, of changing settings. So that means we will step through our changes very carefully. And based on the very strong advice of those experts who have supported every step of our COVID response. I have observed you are seeing overseas there have been openings and then the Rhiann position of requirements. And -- and then requirements being put back in place. That makes it difficult for travellers and Kiwis so we will be careful and deliberate.

>> You made references a couple of times to making changes stick, that is a laudable goal, sorry, I didn't mean to be funny.

>> No, just laudable, yes.

>> Are you making these changes with a view towards winter next year? The resurgence in Europe seems to be because it is winter. Can you make changes now or make positive steps now that last?

>> That's a really good point. Yes, we are thinking about winter and looking at Europe and what is happening there. This is where I would point to the importance of the COVID protection framework. It doesn't say, "Here is the date, all bets are off and we go back to some kind of normal." It accepts COVID is around, it is showing it is still very problematic in some parts of the world. We want a framework that can see us through that, that people will know if we have out-brakes that are problematic and difficult, they will know what will happen. So we have tried to think ahead, we have tried to think about the seasons giving other countries a tough time and how we can prepare for that because one of the benefits we have as a country is that the rest of the world is one season ahead of us and that allows us to plan for that. I'll just take a couple from people who haven't had one, Jason, and then I will come back to you. Bernard?

>> The full vaccination rate of 38.6%, would you be comfortable opening up Auckland on December 15 and going into the traffic light system while a place like Murupara is less than 50%?

>> Yes, one of the things we will be considering when we move different parts of the country are the vaccination levels in different parts of the country. We will be considering of course that will mean we consider what happens for that region and the settings they move into and that means gathering limits and the use of the vaccine pass. Keeping in mind we actually have a higher rate of vaccine for those in Auckland who will be moving than in some cases the communities they might go to.

>> You went there to get vaccination rates up, and it is clear there is 800 people who are not vaccinated.

>> It is a population, if I recall correctly, of some 12 to 1500, a small population, that is correct. We have a situation in that community where a trusted individual has taken a particular, a trusted health professional, has taken a particular position on vaccines which may be contributing to the rates we are seeing in that community. That is actually a reason why things like making sure vaccine passes are used is a way we can protect the unvaccinated.

>> Opening up, you will see Murupara having many cases and deaths.

>> I am not saying that will be the case. As I say, Aucklanders will be sitting on rates close to or over 90% at that point. We will be requiring them to be tested, if they are not vaccinated, before they leave. We are putting protections in place to ensure the safety of the rest of New Zealand, but at the same time we are asking shirt

>> The opposition say that it hasn't lied, it has to go through this week, to make sure there has been no... This is undemocratic. What is your response?

>> I would disagree. Co-protection framework has been publicly available and able to be discussed, debated and considered since October. The very opposition you are choosing to criticise us also have been asking us to just move, arbitrarily. Of course we have a process where there is able to be debate on the framework. But ultimately the decision on when we move are based on the health situation. Of the outbreak, and vaccination levels, rather than what is happening in Parliament.

>> (inaudible)?

>> The timelines are, yes, that is real action for the legislative timetable. Let me go and doublecheck...

>> Yes it is been in the public arena for a long time, the nitty-gritty details, the part politicians have to work through to forge for really needs to have a more forceful discussion. I would also argue this is not too dissimilar, more time has been available to debate and discuss the COVID reduction framework, even before it was publicly announced, we went out engaged with different sectors, engage with public health experts. There has been good engagement around it, and now it is coming before Parliament. Just checking who I have left, Jenae, and then Joe.

>> There are a range of countries in Europe that are seeing resurgence is, like Belgium or Holland, with higher vaccination rates than we do across the whole nation. And they are going back into locked in. What other lessons you are taking from this for the summer and next winter?

>> I had a useful discussion with Professor Tony Blakely in Melbourne last night, we were training together. He had some observations. Couple of things. First of all, this goes to the earlier question, the risk posed by fully vaccinated travellers coming in is not trivial, and if you can imagine in our situation, people travelling in, if they were self isolating even in different parts of the country, and there were cases there, 8 - - each of those is seeding another little outbreak different from our current situation where most of our cases are all coming from known cases. And many of those we can still appear to me logically link. The 2nd thing here is Professor Blake emphasise a lot the impact of waning immunity from the vaccine. This is why our booster program is very timely and we are starting at that six-month point in summer and then we will have had the vast majority, the vast majority will have had it before next winter. And we will place read emphasis on flu vaccination at that point. But we are watching closely what is happening because there is no doubt that seasonality plays a role in transmission of the virus.

>> For you Prime Minister, can you say by December 15 whether Maori and any... Double dose rate?

>> I can't off the top of my head recall the individual vaccine race in the different DHBs. I recall and counties where it is higher than the national average, but if you wouldn't mind I would rather go away and check.

>> It's very close.

>> It's higher in Auckland than the rest of the country. Sorry, Jenae.

>> Prime minister and Doctor Bloomfield, over this pandemic you must be getting used to making some massive life-and- death decisions which I'm not sure you fully thought you were signing up for when you took the positions. But up until now, a lot of the decisions have been aligned with health decisions and we might be seeing a shift now. That I tested point. Sure. I'm just wondering if you can explain to us, the toll it might take on you, making these sessions, whether that authors have yet now. -- toll bills have yet now.

>> Was that for me or Doctor Bloomfield? You go first.

>> Yes, the decisions have felt weighty from the start, and the advice in my case, the decisions taken by the government. It felt weighty all the way through and the challenge now is that we are in this period of transition. The thing, there are 2 things that I find help keep me as calm as possible. The first thing is, we have got access and the government has listened to excellent advice from our science community. The 2nd thing is, we're going into this next phase and one could argue the best possible position. We have a controlled outbreak. We are going into some of. And we have high and still increasing vaccination rates. That is as good a position I would have hoped we would be in at this point of the.

>> I would absolutely concur with Doctor Bloomfield. And I think, as much as I can speak on behalf of cabinet, we have always had really fulsome advice. We have always had an evidence base that extends beyond our borders. We are able to look at what is happening in the rest of the world and learn from it. We have never been afraid to do things differently. All the way through it we have. But it is only been possible through the support of the public as well. And even though this next phase may present a situation where there will be more contested views, where you will hear some voices who might take a perspective that we should operate differently, for the most part the vast majority of people still can see relative to the rest of the world that we are doing really well and making all the decisions in the best interests of New Zealanders. So Joe?

>> Just a question about (inaudible) vaccination rates. The overwhelming (inaudible) seems to be (inaudible) some remote areas.

>> I would disagree.

>> A lot of that being, petrol price, supermarket, or vaccination. Short of paying for a whole heap of off-road vehicles, how will you get rates up in these isolated places, and what work are you doing from a health and political perspective to ensure you can do that?

>> I would disagree. We have worked very hard to overcome the access issue. In fact, take the east coast. When I visited just a few days ago, they now have multiple mobile vaccination clinics operating. Previously they were using horse floats. They are now using campervan's on top of that. Everything they do is able to be taken into remote parts of the community, and even a population as small has had multiple vaccination events going up into the area. I have seen that up and down the country. Unfortunately what we are coming up against now, work previously may have been accessed, it is moving now multi-issues of hands and see. That doesn't mean -- hesitancy. That doesn't mean it can't be overcome, but it will take multiple efforts. We have to go in first, be available with information, trusted providers, and be willing to go back and follow- up. That is the challenge now.

>> That seems really unfair to someone like Shane who has been on the ground for weeks on end. For you to say, he was not out there doing that, to say that what he has said is absolute the incorrect.

>> Also what he is saying is contesting what we're hearing from some providers. I don't take my view just from what I have seen, I take it from the likes of the minister who has been on a constant road trip for a number of days now, up and down the country, in Northland, across the country in areas where access otherwise might be an issue. We know and have already seen the additional funding that has been distributed has gone into long-term mobile clinics to be able to access rural and remote areas. I have been done often, it's not my home and I don't live there, but I have spoken to providers there and heard what they are doing around remote access. I have spoken, I have been to see the mobile clinics operating, I see a lot of work underground.

>> Hesitancy (inaudible) waxing?

>> Hesitancy can mean it is harder to have repeat engagement. I don't think it is fair to say there are parts of the country we are not reaching. I know huge effort has gone into it.

>> Henry and then Bernard.

>> Isolation and access issues, and you -- how you explain correlation between... Poorer people and... Are for

>> All I am arguing is it is oversimplified to say it has been access. I know there has been multiple clinics, that is a remote community, there have been multiple clinics, drive-through opportunities, but there is more at play their. There are some contributing factors. You framed it, I would never say this is, is not an excuse. Latest challenges that we all have to work hard to overcome. Banners, we will finish with you. In Europe, Austria has decided to mandate vaccination for everyone. Do you think there is ever a situation where New Zealand might have to?

>> No. That's not something we would do. OK, thank you everyone.